Wondering If Coaching Is Worth It? Rachel Says Yes—Here’s Why: Transcript
Katie Decker-Erickson (00:02.057)
Hey, Rita, welcome to the show.
Rachel Ogburn (00:04.406)
Hello, hello, thank you so much for having me.
Katie Decker-Erickson (00:07.659)
I'm so excited that you're here today because we have been working together for a little bit now. And I love Rachel. I only invite the people I really love on my show because well, when I first met you, it was very clear. I'm like, she knows what she wants to do. She has a clear direction and she's going to do it. And this is so great. Like it's so fun to work with clients like that. But tell us about your business. Let's start with like, how did you even get into interiors?
Rachel Ogburn (00:34.318)
Sure, sure. Yeah, so I started my company Row and Tear Design about two years ago here in Denver, Colorado, but I started design in the design world, gosh, probably about 10 years ago. And so I'm originally from Southern California, the Orange County area.
And you know, one of the funny things in the business, feel like people end up saying it more frequently than you would think, but my degree was not in design. It was in business administration. And so it's an...
Katie Decker-Erickson (01:02.507)
So do.
Rachel Ogburn (01:06.498)
It has served me very, very well. But so I did not intend to go into interior design initially. I thought that I wanted to do real estate because I loved the housing market. I loved looking at houses. Going to open houses was my weekend pastime. But what I didn't realize is it wasn't just.
Katie Decker-Erickson (01:16.811)
Hmm.
Rachel Ogburn (01:24.02)
real estate and the sales of houses and things like that. That was my gateway. But what I really loved was seeing the architecture and the design and how different people's personalities were shown within their home. so initially, you know, was got my real estate broker's license and was doing that and got it was just so, so unfulfilling. And I just was not was not jelling. I mean, obviously, it's great. It was it was not for me. I was not, you know, was not feeling it.
Katie Decker-Erickson (01:45.321)
I love your honesty. It was so unfulfilling. Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Ogburn (01:54.048)
And so I decided, know what, I am fresh out of college. I have the world ahead of me. Let's just try something that actually sounds fun, that actually sounds like it would fit my personality and my goals and all the things. just decided I'm gonna go for it. So my first role was just in a store in a design center out there and immediately learned so much because what the heck is a lead time and what the heck are trade prices and resale licenses and all these.
Katie Decker-Erickson (02:05.737)
Mmm.
Rachel Ogburn (02:23.952)
these things and so kind of just dove into all of those things that nobody talks about that's all behind the scenes that you have to learn and then really from there just worked my way through the industry I ended up working at a really fabulous design firm out there that took a chance on me of somebody not having much of a background and you know doesn't have it as a
Katie Decker-Erickson (02:24.839)
Mmm, yep.
Rachel Ogburn (02:43.694)
as her major that she studied in college. that role was, you it was just me and the lead designer there. And so I got into every little nitty gritty bit of the industry and the business and, you know, direct facing with clients and organizing all the trades people and all of the materials and, you know, just every aspect of it. And worked at a few other design firms out there, made my way here out to Colorado about five years ago and continue to work in the industry out here. And then,
opened my interior design firm, yeah, about two years ago now. So it's been a really fun, a really beautiful, wonderful journey. And I'm just so happy to be where I am right now.
Katie Decker-Erickson (03:23.281)
What was your tipping point in the words of Malcolm Gladwell into saying, okay, I'm ready to jump out on my own.
Rachel Ogburn (03:31.83)
You know, I was just thinking about, I was like, she's gonna ask that. I need to have a good answer.
Katie Decker-Erickson (03:35.624)
Hahaha!
Rachel Ogburn (03:38.158)
So I was just thinking about that this morning, but I hope that I do. And it is the truthful answer too. You know, sometimes you just feel it in your bones and you just say there's something that...
Katie Decker-Erickson (03:38.613)
love it.
Katie Decker-Erickson (03:48.19)
Yep.
Rachel Ogburn (03:51.104)
I'm ready, I'm on the precipice of something new, of something different, and for whatever reason I know that that's going to be starting my own. And what the heck does that look like? What does that mean? Can I do this? And all of those questions. But I just felt it so deeply from the universe, from whatever, that now is the time and I just, I need to go for it. And so I did. And you know, when you take the leap of faith, sometimes the world is there to catch you and make it happen. So.
Katie Decker-Erickson (03:55.636)
Hmm.
Katie Decker-Erickson (04:19.763)
I love your hoods, but this is, I hope you're enjoying this conversation to our audience because this is exactly why I wanted to have you on the show. It is a leap of faith and it can be downright scary. Like what was the scariest part for you and saying, I know I need to do this. And like we've talked about on the show, doing it scared, doing it scared anyway. Like what was the fear that you just had to say, I'm just gonna hug that porcupine and we're gonna do it anyway.
Rachel Ogburn (04:39.994)
yeah.
Rachel Ogburn (04:46.062)
I would say the biggest fear is...
rejection, right? Because you're putting yourself out there as, here's what I have to offer and people can say yes or people can say no and that's a very scary thing. You know, as a recovering people pleaser and all of that, it's very hard. And I feel, well, and you know what's so interesting is I feel like for whatever reason, the design world attracts a certain personality and a lot of the times
Katie Decker-Erickson (04:50.795)
Katie Decker-Erickson (05:07.884)
women out there. Yes, yes.
Katie Decker-Erickson (05:14.635)
Hmm.
Rachel Ogburn (05:18.99)
there is people pleasing tendencies within the industry and we are, we're you know we're coming to clients and saying here's this beautiful design I put together for you, do you like it? You know and you're putting yourself out there in that way in a very vulnerable way and so I think that was my biggest fear starting out is you know people can say yes or no to this, people can say yes or no to me is really what it is because when it's your own business it's you that you know you're the face of it and you're the designer behind all of the all of the specific
Katie Decker-Erickson (05:28.681)
Hmm. Yeah, it's vulnerable.
Katie Decker-Erickson (05:42.155)
Hmm.
Katie Decker-Erickson (05:48.512)
Yeah.
Rachel Ogburn (05:48.832)
So they're really saying yes or no to you. And so I think the fear of rejection was that biggest fear that I had to just kind of say, it's going to be what it's going to be, you know?
Katie Decker-Erickson (05:59.093)
How did you get over it? How did you say, if they rejected design, it's not them rejecting me. They just want to change to the design. Because this is one of the biggest things I love to coach too. It's the confidence factor of it is not you. It's something you created, but what they see as beauty is so unique to each individual and their functionality.
Rachel Ogburn (06:05.55)
you
Katie Decker-Erickson (06:19.761)
and use case may be completely different than what you had in your head. And ideally you get that out of the gate, but sometimes clients don't even know. And it takes them a minute to figure out what they want. And you have to walk that journey with them. How did you get past going, I'm not a rejection. It's the design plan they want changed.
Rachel Ogburn (06:36.546)
yeah absolutely. I mean I think I had seen working at previous design firms it happened to other people and you know it really is where I love the overall direction but this one piece for whatever reason it reminds me of this and you would have had no idea that that piece was going to remind them of that one thing or whatever it is. And so I had seen it happen to others and so that does kind of help just
Katie Decker-Erickson (06:48.799)
Yeah.
Katie Decker-Erickson (06:53.045)
Totally.
Rachel Ogburn (07:01.11)
take the sting out of it. It's not me, it happens to everyone, you know, whatever it is, but I would say also too, it's doing it scared and maybe I never really did get over it and it's just, you gotta, you know, keep moving forward anyway. And a huge part of that was coaching, you know, it's the confidence factor and the confidence to put yourself out there in that way anyway.
Katie Decker-Erickson (07:13.375)
Keep doing it. Yeah.
Katie Decker-Erickson (07:18.379)
Mmm.
Katie Decker-Erickson (07:25.171)
which can be so hard. So yes, and I love that we have been able to work together. What made you come to me? Like, let's have the conversation. There's so many business coaches out there. What made you say, I need a business coach and this is why I chose to work with Katie? I would love to hear that just because I'm intrigued by it.
Rachel Ogburn (07:43.882)
Yeah, yeah, so I had first initially heard you on the Design Matters podcast with Luanne, which I have an avid listener to as well as your podcast. But so I had heard you and I heard you speak to how interior designers have, you know, were
Katie Decker-Erickson (07:49.599)
love her. Yeah.
Rachel Ogburn (08:01.822)
thrown into the thick of things and nobody tells you when you do decide to take that leap of faith, nobody tells you here's how you do it, here's the nitty-gritty of it. No, you just throw yourself in and you figure it out along the way, but we still need that coaching, we still need that support, we still need that help, and it's twofold of the the really tactical help of you know, here's how you need to run your finances, here's how you need to organize your processes, but also too there's the more
nuanced of having the confidence and doing things scared and making moves and focusing your marketing and different things like that where the coaching is so so helpful in both of those categories in the tactical and the nuanced and I could just when I was listening to you on on the other podcast I could just hear I was like God she she gets it you know she understands the plight of the interior designer and
Katie Decker-Erickson (08:35.368)
Hmm.
Katie Decker-Erickson (08:39.371)
Hmm.
Katie Decker-Erickson (08:58.887)
It is a plight some days. Yes. Some days it's so rewarding and other days you're like, what am I doing with my life? Yeah.
Rachel Ogburn (09:06.318)
Yeah, yeah, no, there's good days, there's hard days, but you know, it's, and so I just, I was at a point, I think I had probably been in business for maybe close to a year at that point. And it was at this point where it's like, okay, you know, I've built something here, but I want it to be better. And we all have blind spots. And so,
Katie Decker-Erickson (09:13.259)
Hmm.
Katie Decker-Erickson (09:22.827)
Totally.
Rachel Ogburn (09:29.186)
getting with a coach who can help you see those blind spots and help you navigate around them so that you can make those changes to get to the next level and make those decisions to do things maybe you were scared to do without talking it through without, you know, without talking to somebody else. And so it's...
it's just been so so helpful for me. But so no, I mean I could just I could just tell like she gets it and she's gonna get me and I need this right now because I do you know at the time I was like I need to get to that next level. I want to I want to break through that barrier and I want somebody's assistance and coaching to get there.
Katie Decker-Erickson (10:07.113)
I totally one of my favorite things that we did when we started coaching was opening up the Rolodex and I love sharing because I think what happens is so many designers feel so alone to your point. It's like I'm out here and I'm fighting the battle. What is everybody else doing? Is there a resource for this? Is there a resource for that? This one of my favorite parts of coaching is being like, yes, there is. So you need this person and this person and this person and that person and plugging in so that it doesn't feel like I'm in my office staring at a screen designing for
the 85th hour this week and am I still earning money? Right? Like, cause sometimes that's the big question. Am I still here? Do I still like this? Am I still earning money? Is this still happening for me? Man, and to see your transformation has been so cool because one of the things I said, and if in case you haven't figured out by now, Rachel is very self-motivated. And I said, Rachel.
Rachel Ogburn (10:41.166)
Hahaha
Katie Decker-Erickson (10:59.359)
Rachel, you've got to give yourself some space. You are doing great. This is going to happen for you. my gosh. You've been in business for one hot minute and you've already crushed it. Now just take a deep breath and realize some of this just takes time, which is sometimes hard to accept on the journey too. Sometimes it's not about the better process, the greater intentionality. In fact, I talked about this in my car coaching session on Monday, but sometimes time just takes, it just takes time. How have you walked the balance?
of strategizing about understanding intentionality in business, but also just saying it might just take one hot minute for this to happen and give yourself a moment to breathe because you're crushing it.
Rachel Ogburn (11:40.888)
Well, and I think...
just to speak on that real quick before I answer your question, I needed to hear that, you know? And so a lot of times in the design world we have our, we have our circle, our personal circle, we have our our family, we have our partners, we have our friends, you know, and they encourage us and all those things, but to have someone, a lot of times you need someone in the industry who's been there, who gets it, who understands the clients and the way that the industry works to say you're doing a great job, don't be so hard on yourself.
Katie Decker-Erickson (11:45.172)
Yeah.
Katie Decker-Erickson (12:11.275)
100%. Those might've been the exact words. Yeah.
Rachel Ogburn (12:12.526)
Because I am. Because I am. I'm very hard on myself and I do, you know, I have big goals and a lot of motivation to get there. And so having someone along the way to encourage you is just so vital and so important. But so, just to go back to your question, I'm like, let me get back there. But so.
speak to ourself at the end of the day of you you've had a long day and you're like I just you know I'm ready for that next big thing to happen I keep thinking about it I keep wanting it I keep working towards it but giving yourself that time and giving yourself that grace to just you know it does take time and it's you know like you said it's it's been a hot minute and there's there's still so much time ahead so there's still so much time for things to get bigger and bigger and bigger and you have to be patient a lot.
Katie Decker-Erickson (13:52.297)
Hmm.
Rachel Ogburn (14:06.742)
the way and and do the work in the meantime and keep that motivation in the meantime but just keep it forefront that that's where you're headed.
Katie Decker-Erickson (14:10.089)
Yes.
Katie Decker-Erickson (14:16.235)
Yeah, 150%. It's interesting. A lot of times we talk about doing the lonely work when I'm coaching about taking that time to do it. All the things that allow you to shine when you have a chance to shine. It was interesting coaching with you because it was the exact inverse of like, I know you're doing all the things. Now you just need to wait a minute and feel really good about what you've created because it takes this many touch points and it takes this much time in the world of marketing and it takes, and you're going to get there. It just takes one hot minute, which is hard. Where do you think you would be without coaching?
If we hadn't gone on that path, how did coaching change the trajectory of your career and really starting your own space?
Rachel Ogburn (14:55.564)
I think it kind of comes back to the twofold of the really tangible of, I needed a new accountant and you said, I've got an amazing accountant, here you go. And so the resources that propelled me forward and then also the way that you think about your business of being patient with the progress and all of that, I think that I would have been slower to find my
Katie Decker-Erickson (15:06.441)
Hmm. Hmm.
Rachel Ogburn (15:25.558)
accountant and to be harder on myself when it comes to the time aspect of things take time and all of that kind of stuff. So I think it's it just it takes you where you're at and it launches you.
Katie Decker-Erickson (15:26.859)
Mmm.
Rachel Ogburn (15:42.04)
forward in a way that you wouldn't have been able to do yourself because there's so much power within community and there's so much power within, you know, just talking to each other. And so to specifically talk to someone that knows the industry, understands where you're at and knows where you need to be and how to get there. I mean, it's like, yeah, I could have figured it out myself along the way, but it would have taken much more time, much more energy, much more frustration. And so it's like, yeah, no, let's just catapult this thing forward.
Katie Decker-Erickson (15:50.121)
Yes.
Rachel Ogburn (16:11.984)
and let's just keep moving. Because as I said, I can be impatient with those things. And so that's the perfect way for me to get from here to here quickly.
Katie Decker-Erickson (16:20.681)
Yeah, I think it's so wise. And I think anyone who is coaching should also be being coached. We all have things to learn.
And I think that's the beauty of our industry too, is there's always some new angle either to design or now AI or to business. In fact, it was interesting. I was speaking to the Interior Design Society's virtual chapter and AI came up and they're like, come back and do just AI, Katie. And I was like, I'm a coming because it is, it's so quickly changing every single industry. And so...
If you're bored and stagnant, if you're like, don't know what I should be doing with my business. It's like, that's a good moment to stop and say, I need somebody to come on board. Whether it's Katie coaching me or there's so many coaches out there, find one you love and go find somebody to help you.
really catapult yourself to where you want to be. And also back off. Sometimes that's an interesting aspect of coaching is coaching people into retirement. I have another coaching client like that who's like, I want to slow down. I want to be done in three years. I want to position my business to close. And that's a whole nother coaching chapter, right? But as is always the case in life, there's chapters and fragments and segments. And I think even when we first met, you were like, I'm right in the middle of getting ready to move and do
Rachel Ogburn (17:18.894)
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Ogburn (17:28.846)
Mm-hmm.
Katie Decker-Erickson (17:40.011)
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I was like, yep, it's never gonna be the perfect time. We should start. Right? I think it.
Rachel Ogburn (17:44.814)
No, it's so true. Life doesn't pause for you.
Katie Decker-Erickson (17:49.747)
It doesn't. like, but to see where you're at now and the progress you've made in building this business that you wanted to build and finding your space and your voice and your confidence and also your patience with yourself is so cool because I think before when I first met with you, I was like, I don't she's going to burn out.
She is pushing so hard. I'm like, she needs one hot minute of grace with herself. And now when I see you, I'm like, it's grounded Rachel, who's in a position to like sustain for a long period of time. And she's still highly motivated. But instead of like the high spun urgency, there's more of this like grounded confidence of peaceful decision making that's moving you just as fast, but in a sustainable way.
Rachel Ogburn (18:39.598)
Absolutely. Instead of that feeling of panic of I need to be there, I need to do this, I need to do that, it's that steady undercurrent that's underneath everything else of I am doing those things. And it will take time, but because I'm doing that work and I'm laying that foundation, it will happen. And it is happening and it will continue to happen. So I really think, yes, it's instead of kind of
Katie Decker-Erickson (18:49.034)
Yes.
Katie Decker-Erickson (19:03.379)
love that.
Rachel Ogburn (19:06.328)
fearfully clawing at something that you want, it's confidently working towards it in every little thing that you do during the day. And it's not always these big huge moves that you're making, but sometimes it's really just the way that you're thinking about your client, that you're thinking about the project, and that you're thinking about future projects and the way you're branding yourself and the clients that you are marketing yourself towards and trying to, you know, kind of draw in. And so yeah, it's just somewhat of the different mentality of, you
fearfully grasping for something versus confidently working towards something and it's the same goal. It's you know you're still working towards that same thing and you're still thinking about that same thing but just approaching it differently with with a calmer mindset and with a more confident mindset because I think that's something too that goes so so far with clients and with building your business and it it takes time but it's building that confidence. It's building it in yourself, it's building it in your designs, it's building it in your process.
and it's not going to happen overnight because nobody who's running a business has the time to make those kinds of things happen overnight and they're just something that naturally evolved anyway. But yes, it really is just that confidence factor in yourself and in your business and in your processes and in your design.
Katie Decker-Erickson (20:14.667)
Well said. Well said.
Katie Decker-Erickson (20:26.015)
What would you say to the person listening who's like, hear you Rachel, but they're just scared to reach out and say, help, need some help in this area. What would be your words of wisdom to them sitting on the other side of the coaching experience?
Rachel Ogburn (20:41.206)
Yeah, I mean I would say...
there's certain things that you need to invest in when you're starting a business, whether it's interior design or otherwise, and the most important thing to invest in when it's a company that you are the face of is yourself. And coaching is such a beautiful way to do that because it's completely tailored to you. You go to your coach, I came to you, and I said here's what the heck's going on, here's me, here's my projects, here's my goals, and so it's you know it's tailored to you because
don't get me wrong, I love listening to a good podcast, but to make it personalized and to speak to someone one-on-one who's going to propel you forward is just invaluable. so I would say investing in yourself is just absolutely worth it when it comes to starting your business because we all hit roadblocks and we all, like I said, have blind spots and those kinds of things and so working on those early on and coaching is fabulous throughout your
whole career, but just speaking from my experience, getting that coaching early on is it's just really been so so helpful and wonderful. And one of the other things too was in purchasing your package where I got to time when I wanted those coaching sessions, I got to tailor it to when I needed it. And so it was you know between session one and two happened pretty quickly and then I was like okay I'm I've got my rhythm, I'm moving forward, I'm feeling good, I have crazy life things happening, I'm
Katie Decker-Erickson (22:03.019)
Mmm. I love that.
Rachel Ogburn (22:12.91)
moving, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and then we're, you know, we get, we start new projects, new things happen, and I've got a new thing I need to talk about, let's go back and schedule my session with Katie.
Katie Decker-Erickson (22:21.387)
You
It was so great. saw her pop up and I'm like, bet she's lived a little bit of life based on our second conversation. Yep. I can't wait to hear. And it was such a good conversation because so many things had moved and changed personally and professionally. How do we make all that gel? You know, I'm so excited for what the future holds for you. It is so, it has been a privilege and an honor to be a part of your journey. And I can't wait to see where it takes you because it's so fun. This is my favorite part about coaching is just sitting here on the sidelines and saying, I think if you,
Rachel Ogburn (22:29.698)
Hahaha
Rachel Ogburn (22:34.67)
Let's go.
Rachel Ogburn (22:41.356)
Thank
Rachel Ogburn (22:47.776)
Yeah.
Katie Decker-Erickson (22:54.443)
do this little tweak, this little tweak, this little tweak, things will change and then watching what happens and it's usually incredible because I don't even have to do the work. I'm just planting the seed and then I sit back and watch it grow and it is it's humbling. It's like, wow, that's amazing. It does. It takes my breath away. It leaves me deeply humbled. So thank you for trusting me. It means more than you know, and I'm so excited. I can't even imagine where you're going to be in another year.
Rachel Ogburn (23:02.211)
Yeah.
Rachel Ogburn (23:15.82)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
No, I'm so excited about the time that we've spent together with coaching with our time today. you know, it really it's they're fun milestones for me as well of, when we talked those previous times and then talking more recently and just talking through the different stages of building a business and growing a business there. It's good milestones for me, too. And I'm so excited about the the growth that Ro has had over the past few years and the growth that we've had this year.
Katie Decker-Erickson (23:31.339)
Hmm.
Rachel Ogburn (23:49.134)
And so I'm also very excited to see how things continue to blossom and grow. And I've just, I've been so happy that you've been such an amazing part of that. So.
Katie Decker-Erickson (23:52.159)
Yeah.
Katie Decker-Erickson (23:58.463)
Well, thanks for trusting me. It means the world. We'll put the link to her website in our show notes. And thank you for your time. I love it. These are these are the people that are going to change our industry for the better. It's so cool to see. Thank you, Rachel.
Rachel Ogburn (24:12.226)
Thank you so, so much. Have a great day.
