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Technology & Automation for Interior Design with Danny Marsh
Technology is really not a favorite part of the job for an interior designer. It’s a part of the job we begrudgingly accept, but not one we flock to. If anything, tech tends to cause frustration in our world. But, as you and I can both see, tech isn’t going anywhere—it’s becoming an even bigger behemoth!
When I have tech questions, my go-to is Danny Marsh! Danny joins me on the podcast today where he’s sharing technology challenges unique to interior designers, emerging tech trends, how certain software actually hinders your business growth, and introduces us to his tech firm that’s just for interior designers! You’re in for a fantastic conversation. Stick around for this week’s Coaching Corner—with a special guest!
In this episode, we cover:
The biggest tech challenges interior designers face
Why Danny created a tech firm for interior designers
Why it’s important for designers to acknowledge they’re entrepreneurs
A golden nugget about tailored-to-you tech solutions
Examples of Danny successfully and radically repositioning designers
How certain software hinders your ability to grow your firm
How Danny balances the creative needs of designers with tech solutions
What technology trends are emerging in the interior design space
So many thanks to Danny for joining us today to share his insights and not just make technology doable, but inviting. (Which is a big thing in the interior design world!) As you heard today, hire the expert and let them do their job.
Be sure to say hello on LinkedIn so we can continue the conversation!
More about Danny Marsh
Danny Marsh is a seasoned technology consultant with a unique passion for helping others create and achieve their vision through entrepreneurship, technology, and design. With over 15 years of experience in product development and company operations, Daniel specializes in crafting innovative, user-centric solutions that streamline workflows, enhance client experiences, and support design businesses in thriving within a competitive market. When Daniel isn’t empowering design professionals with technology, he’s likely exploring Utah’s rugged landscapes, rock climbing, skiing, or spending quality time with his family.
Links and Mentioned Resources
Connect with Danny Marsh
This episode is brought to you by Plumtree.it
Plumtree is a fractional technology service provider. This means you will have access to top dedicated talent for a fraction of the price. Together we can craft the perfect technology infrastructure for you and your company, and give you the support you need to stay calm,
Connect with Katie Decker-Erickson
Book Your Coaching Strategy Session with Katie!
Business Coaching for Interior Designers
Subscribe to Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design
More about Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design
As an interior designer, do you struggle with balancing your passion for creativity with the practical demands and hopes of running a successful business? Whether starting a new venture or scaling an existing firm, the complexities can be overwhelming. Welcome to “Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design,” a podcast designed to bridge the gap between creativity and entrepreneurship.
This masterclass is hosted by the dynamic Katie Decker-Erickson, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in interior design, a Master's degree in Business Administration, and creator and owner of a multimillion-dollar interior design firm.
Each episode offers innovative and actionable business strategies, engaging conversations, and practical guidance to help you build and grow a successful design business. Tune in every other Friday on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial skills. (Topics and language are kid/family friendly.)
This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you.
This episode of Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design is brought to you in partnership with Leah Bryant Co.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design follows
Katie (00:01.873)
Hey, Danny, welcome to the show.
Danny (00:04.356)
Well, thank you. glad to be on.
Katie (00:06.301)
we are thrilled to have you because there is nothing I think that most of us in the world of design, unless you're a drafter can say unequivocally and that we hate technology because it usually doesn't work the way we want it to. And the best tech is the tech we don't think about, which is why I love my iPhone, right? Because I don't think about it. So.
Danny (00:25.102)
You know, that is so true.
Katie (00:26.301)
It's so true. And like, I wish it was different, but we just want to get back to creating. We don't want to hang out in this technological universe. Admittedly, now that's your happy space, which we absolutely love. But I want to start with like, what do you see as the biggest challenges for interior designers today? And how are you addressing them as the CEO of PlumTree? Love your firm. In full disclosure, we work with them.
Really, it's a tech firm designed just for interior designers, which is kind of cool. But what are you seeing? What are all the problems we're all facing? I mean, I know my problems, but you tell me what you're seeing.
Danny (01:07.054)
Yeah, you know, that's a, an interesting question because everybody's going to have their unique challenges. And depending on if you're a brand new interior design company or a seasoned interior design company, kind of looking to address the changing marketplaces, you're all going to have different challenges, different objectives and different needs in the exact moment.
Katie (01:15.549)
Hmm.
Danny (01:34.362)
Some people are just starting out. trying to find their niche. Other people are looking to scale and trying to understand how technology can be used to help make their workflows more efficient. And then you have all the challenges of changing political landscapes or economical landscapes or even generational landscapes. But one thing that seems to affect
Katie (01:55.133)
Hmm.
Danny (01:59.966)
every interior design company, whether you're new or you are old, is the changing technology landscape. honestly, technology as a whole, it could be your Achilles' or it could be your secret sauce. depending on how well you are, I appreciate that, depending on how well you are at using it can really give you that competitive advantage in your own given market space.
Katie (02:17.618)
Well said.
Danny (02:29.262)
But I don't know, let's, you know, design something that's really special in my heart. It's where I got my career. I started off in product design and design software. And so really understanding how the design process works, that how to integrate that in your operations and utilize technology to make it more efficient. All of those things kind of work together. And if you can do it well.
Katie (02:54.173)
Hmm.
Danny (02:59.194)
then you're very happy, designer.
Katie (03:03.727)
It's so true. And I will say, as designers, there's two things that get us to switch technology. If we get the feeling we're going to be left behind and we absolutely have to do it, or if the technology we're using is
Danny (03:09.38)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (03:17.053)
going away fundamentally and then we get real inspired to find a solution. But I would say overall and Gale Dobie has done a fabulous job of researching so much of this. Designers don't, we're not early adopters, let's just put it that way. We usually get brought to the party with a freight train pulling us along for the ride. And so when clients come to you, where do you feel like you have an upper hand as compared to
Danny (03:21.924)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (03:37.166)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Katie (03:46.467)
well there's this design firm down the street and they're really great and someone referred me but what do you feel like is missing in that that is the piece that you provide?
Danny (03:58.554)
Yeah, so that goes actually to a little bit to my background. So when I went to college, I fell in love with entrepreneurship and actually had the goal to one day be an angel investor because I really liked the idea of jumping in with these brand new visionaries that wanted to go change the world. And I thought the way to do that was going to be make a lot of money.
Katie (04:04.029)
Hmm.
Katie (04:19.303)
Yeah.
Danny (04:26.658)
start investing into these young guys and help them build their vision and create their empire. Somewhere down the line...
Katie (04:33.127)
That's a pretty cool plan, I'm not going to lie. I mean, I'm like, yeah, I kind of am tracking with you, and that sounds fabulous. So what happened?
Danny (04:41.102)
You know, somewhere down the line, I learned that there's so many different ways to create a vision and so many different ways to help people. And I got involved with business consulting and fell in love with that same passion of being able to help others create their visions. And so when it comes to interior design, a lot of people don't necessarily instantly identify themselves when they say I'm an interior designer as...
Well, I'm an entrepreneur. But the reality is interior designers are 100 % entrepreneurs. And so you could still go down all those roads of creating your business, creating a vision, creating a marketplace, creating your brand identity. And then in addition to that, I also bring the technology side of that. So how are we going to use technology to create our vision?
Katie (05:25.341)
Mm.
Danny (05:40.506)
How are we going to use technology to attack the marketplace? How are we going to use technology to be better designers? Or how are we going to use technology to do better operations? All of those things combined, depending on what your objective is, whether it's scaling, whether it's just keeping our team small and efficient and getting a few hours back in your day so you can go enjoy time with your family. Depending on what your objective is, my goal is to figure out how to...
to create, well, not necessarily create that vision, it's your vision, but how to take that vision that you have and make it just a little bit closer to reality.
Katie (06:20.241)
Which is such a beautiful thing, because there's so many times where at least the designers that I coach, I'll say, who's your target market and how is your brand identity aligned with them? I don't know. I haven't thought about my target market. OK, but then how do we build the brand? And the brand informs the website, which informs the social media content, which informs. And walking them through that process is such a.
Danny (06:28.92)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Danny (06:38.479)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (06:44.815)
an evolutionary journey and that they start to understand who they kind of want to be when they grow up. And these can be firms that have been in existence for a significant amount of time, but they don't understand the power of what knowing who they are can do for them when it comes even to knowing what their technological needs are. Because when you know what your target market's looking for, you can find the right tech on the back end.
to even help facilitate that back to like it's operating in the background and it's working when I'm not thinking about it's working, right?
Danny (07:19.098)
Mm-hmm. You know, here's a question for you. You're obviously a seasoned interior designer, a pot...
Katie (07:26.833)
That's code for old Danny. And I really appreciate that you chose the word seasoned. I'm going to go with that today. I needed that. Thank you. It's like wine in a good cast iron pan. You're seasoned. Yeah, go ahead.
Danny (07:39.61)
Absolutely. When did you, I mean, when you first started, did you think, I want to go and start a business or I want to go be an interior designer or when did you start realizing that I'm not just doing interior design, but I'm actually building an organization. I'm actually building a company. I'm building a brand. Did that cross your mind in the beginning or is that something that you learned later on?
Katie (07:45.437)
Hmm.
Katie (07:51.421)
Mm.
Katie (08:09.873)
You know, that's a really interesting question because for me it did, but I don't think that's normal based on the clients I coach. I wanted to start a business that allowed me to use my creative juices, but I had just finished my MBA and so I was heavy on the business, right? But I knew I had this passion to create. So like even starting Colorworks when I started it, I started it not using my name with the intent of either
having my daughters take it over someday if they wanted to, or selling it. And I don't, that's retirement. I'm not that seasoned yet. We still got a few more, hopefully, decades in us. But yeah, that was the intent behind it. I think what happens to a lot of creatives though, a lot of interior designers, at least the ones I coach, it's I wanted to start out doing my own thing. So I started designing and.
Danny (08:44.462)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (09:05.253)
started with family and then that became a word of mouth thing. And then I started working with, you know, Joe and John down the street. And then that became a thing. And then it just progressed from there. Is that where you're kind of going with that question, though? Because I don't think I had a normal journey. I'll be real. In fact, I know I didn't have a normal journey to interior design. And I don't even know kind of your point about like, what is the greatest need when I asked you that question that you see in the interior design space when it comes to technology?
every firm and every person I feel like is so different, which is why because their journeys are all unique, they all need tailored solutions. Is that a fair way to put it?
Danny (09:41.934)
I think that's a very smart way to put it. And even in any sort of marketplace, whether you're looking into your design or looking into other startups, depending on when you start, doesn't even mean you can do the same thing that those before you that did, because the marketplace is now different. And so you really do need a tailored solution when it comes to
Katie (10:03.101)
Now that's an interesting thought.
Danny (10:11.04)
every single company because every company is in a different marketplace. Every single company has different technologies and different opportunities that are at their disposal when they start and when they grow. And I guess the general rule is if you're not flexible then you open yourself up for risk.
Katie (10:33.799)
totally. mean, that's just like a classic Baldrige business principle, right? Agility. You have to be agile. And when you lose your agility, mean, think about some of these great big behemoth organizations, you know, i.e. the big box retailer that has a dominant color blue. So we don't get in trouble. But like their ability to be agile when it came to their perception in the marketplace was so hard. Look at how many years they've spent trying to turn around the perception of who they are in the marketplace and that they're not just the low cost provider balanced on the backs of their employees.
Danny (10:38.436)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (10:48.13)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (11:03.919)
That's a huge, huge thing. I mean, that's hard to do. Let me ask you, what is the greatest change or example you have seen where you've picked up a firm or picked up a client where you're like, well, this is interesting, and been able to radically reposition them to better be able to do what they love as opposed to feeling like they were tripping over tech all day long?
Danny (11:04.015)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (11:28.922)
Yeah, it's a good question and I'm going to answer it with two different companies. One that's not an interior design company and then I'm going to use an interior design company. So one company earlier on in my career that we worked with was a doctor's office and something that's interesting in a lot of family practices that people
Katie (11:34.823)
Perfect.
Katie (11:41.149)
Mmm.
Danny (11:57.518)
may not actually realize is the medical assistant inside the doctor's office is probably one of the most vital pieces of that whole entire office. And for a given office that has a couple doctors, you could have about 10 or 20 medical assistants for a practice that has two to three doctors.
Katie (12:18.055)
These are like the people taking your blood pressure and making sure you've got the right name, of birth, like those folks, right? OK.
Danny (12:24.45)
Yes, these are generally young women about ages 18 to 24 or 25. They are generally inside the office for about 18 months to 24 months before they move on, either because they graduate, they're going to med school, or they get married, or there's so many different...
Katie (12:33.51)
Okay.
Katie (12:48.046)
Mm. Sure.
Danny (12:54.146)
life-changing moments they can have. But what ends up happening inside these doctors' clinics and offices is there's a very high turnover of talent that is also very skilled talent. And so it takes about six months to ramp up a new medical assistant. And when you're only there for about 18 months, that means a third of the time these new employees aren't even very...
Katie (13:05.245)
Mm.
Katie (13:23.517)
So not operating at maximum potential, basically. Yeah.
Danny (13:23.673)
valuable.
Exactly. And so we ended up creating a system that allowed for the onboarding of new employees to be very, very quick to not only empower the medical assistants to be able to get their questions answered without having to talk to anyone. They can just go to the tablet. They're like, how do I set up this procedure? Here's the instructions. Bam, I know how to do all this procedure set up. And what ended up happening is
All these mistakes that were happening by new medical assistants in these offices, well, they started to go away. And you started to say 15 minutes there, 15 minutes there. And then all of a sudden, after saving about 30, 45 minutes a day, well, that means those are two or three more patients a doctor can now see. And so over the course of a year, we're talking at over...
Katie (14:03.761)
That's fascinating.
Katie (14:17.181)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (14:23.352)
hundred thousand dollars in additional revenue these doctors are now able to generate. And that's pure profit. Pure profit. And so...
Katie (14:26.737)
That's insane.
Katie (14:31.973)
Right, because the CMA is already there. It's just getting them more efficient at their job because they have the technological backbone to allow them to get up to speed faster and be more productive.
Danny (14:34.913)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Danny (14:42.394)
Absolutely. Now, I told you I'd also talk about an interior design company. so operations are very core to every single company. And utilizing the right tools to be able to do the right things and to have your data in the right place is very, very critical. So without disclosing any sensitive information, this one client that inside the interior design space, I, when, yeah.
Katie (14:44.216)
Interesting.
Katie (15:08.433)
Yeah.
Danny (15:10.862)
When we went in to go look at, what are you doing? How are you operating as a company? We realized that the way they were setting up their data and the way that they were operating, there's a complete mismatch as far as the software they're using and the goals they were trying to do with the software. In fact, they were just using task management to completely run their whole entire
Katie (15:15.997)
Hmm.
Danny (15:38.778)
their company instead of using operations and proper data structures. And just for a clear example, if you're using a software like Asana to manage a client tell list or to manage your workflows, it can get you 50 % of the way there. But when you start wanting to drill down and reporting to know where are my clients located or where are the...
Katie (16:05.372)
Yes.
Danny (16:07.706)
of my workflow that are taking the longest, well then all your data now is trapped in ways that is not reportable. And so you can't actually identify the issues that your company is having in its operations. And so being able to extract that data, put it into a system that actually does operations appropriately, and there's many out there. So I want to give you all the answers right now because it really depends.
Katie (16:16.477)
Yeah.
Katie (16:33.565)
Back to tailored solutions again, right? Like what works for one firm doesn't work for another.
Danny (16:38.518)
Absolutely. And so, but being able to get the data into the right places, now you can identify the actual areas inside your company that require your attention, that require problem solving. And then you can start making your procurement faster. You can start making your turnover of project completion faster. And you can take
Katie (16:46.845)
Hmm.
Danny (17:07.83)
any sort of KPI that you're trying to measure now and see if the strategies that you're using are actually improving those KPIs.
Katie (17:16.315)
And I can't tell you how many clients I coach to that are still operating off a task list. And there's so many problems with that. If you're doing that, this is the time to tune into this part, because it's affecting your profitability. If you're operating off a task list, to Danny's point, you cannot get more efficient about the areas that you're spending an inordinate amount of time on when you don't even know what those areas are.
Danny (17:30.266)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (17:40.772)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (17:41.029)
And you also can't get through all the subtasks, all the delegation. You can't create all the automation. So when one person does something, it triggers someone else to do something. It's still on you to reassign that task, right? Task lists are great if it's you doing you. But if you want to scale, and I would say even if you are one other person in your office, you should not be operating on a task list because it is going to cripple you long term.
Danny (18:05.786)
Well, it comes down to...
Danny (18:10.808)
Yeah, and it really comes down to your objective. Scaling is one thing, right? But I don't know anybody who doesn't want 30 minutes back in their day. And so if you could spend, you know, a little bit of money to start getting 30 minutes back in your day every single day, who doesn't want that?
Katie (18:14.385)
That's fair.
Katie (18:22.216)
my gosh, if you do, please let us know. We would love to hear it.
Katie (18:31.633)
Yeah, no, that's everybody. I know I'd kill for 30 minutes. 30 minutes would feel amazing. So let me ask you, how are you balancing in your firm the creative needs of interior designers also with those tech solutions and the requirements that they have when you're building?
Danny (18:50.606)
Yeah, that's a good question.
You know, I think about...
So there is a book that I remember back in my college days called the E-Myth Revisited. And the whole and I love it too. There's one story in that book in particular that really resonated strong with me. And so in that book, you have this baker, her name is Sarah and she really liked to make pies.
Katie (19:02.525)
I love a good book.
Katie (19:07.037)
great buck.
Katie (19:16.413)
Mm.
Danny (19:26.222)
But as you quickly learn when starting a business, just because you like to make pies does not mean you like to run a business.
Katie (19:33.925)
Yeah, it's the darndest thing, right? Yes. I think there's so many people that can relate to this story. Yes.
Danny (19:36.601)
Yeah.
Danny (19:41.124)
So in this story, she realized bookkeeping was the bane of her existence. She didn't like it. She wasn't good at it. just if she could get rid of that one thing, it'd make her life amazing. Well, a lot of people don't realize you don't have to go hire a full-time bookkeeper to do your books. And so what Sarah
quickly learned is she hired this part-time bookkeeper, spent pretty much hourly. They did the books when she needed to, took that task off her plate and allowed her to focus on the areas of her business that she truly loved. so, bacon pies. And so, when I think about the clients that I've consulted in the past, there are definitely clients where we've had, they've
Katie (20:14.141)
Hmm.
Katie (20:27.495)
get back to bacon pies.
Danny (20:39.972)
had this specific problem or project that they said, hey, could you just do this for us real quick? And we spent a few hours, delivered it, and we're like, thank you, we're done, and we part ways. And those can be fun projects, but the clients that I think I have the most fun working with are the clients where they're like, well, what we're really looking for is somebody to be a part of our team.
And the needs of the interior designers, like, when it comes to technology, it's going to be ever changing. Yes, there are things that we can do. We can 100 % build a website for you. We could 100 % create a plan for branding or marketing. And we can do these things and get you on the right track and...
Katie (21:22.588)
Yep.
Danny (21:38.766)
let you go on your merry way. But there's just something a little bit more fun when you get to build that relationship and it's an ongoing relationship. And instead of training somebody to do technology, you get to do technology for them and to build their solutions and to continue to enhance their solutions and to help them.
reach those goals and objectives and scale if that's what they were looking to do or help them to make their teams more efficient if that's what they're looking to do and to really approach these problems more as partners or as coworkers or team members. And that's how I like to balance that kind of workload where it's like interior designers.
Katie (22:27.357)
Hmm.
Danny (22:33.838)
especially the ones that are very passionate about interior design or building vision or creating teams.
That, in my mind, is where your focus should be, on the areas that you absolutely love. And you could go generate a ton of different skills and technology, and I always encourage people to do that because technology is rapidly changing, and the more you can use it, the better you're gonna be. But if that's just not who you want to be, or if you don't really want to spend that time becoming
Katie (23:00.295)
Yeah.
Danny (23:12.152)
the chief technology officer at your company. Well, come partner with us. We can do that. We can help you on the technology side and help either create that vision on the technology side that you need, or if you already have that vision, help you execute it in a way where we bring years of experience doing just that.
Katie (23:37.245)
I love that. And I love your story about Sarah. And I'm sitting here smiling because in all of the coaching clients I have helped over the years, I think about it and I don't know one of them that said, I love technology. And I do design on the side, right? Like technology is usually the afterthought. But one thing I thought that was interesting as you were talking, I was thinking about in our firm, how we use tech.
and then it makes us better at something. And when we get better at something, then we need more tech to keep pace with us. And so it becomes this like, kind of like climbing up a mountain, but it's a stair step, right? Like.
Danny (24:08.42)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (24:13.831)
We get better at something. We need the tech to come back up and do something differently, or we need more data, or we want an easy lead conversion, or we want whatever it is. And it's great, like you said, to have somebody on your team who can be that person, because that is the game changer when it comes to, I think, continuing down. If you are wanting to scale, it's a lot easier when you can do rapid implementation as opposed to going out finding someone who can do this specific thing and then letting them do it and then finding someone else
Danny (24:26.618)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (24:42.394)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (24:43.795)
who can do that specific thing. It's so important to have someone, I guess, on your team who has that hierarchical vision of where are we going with tech. It can even perceive your needs before you know you need them because this isn't what we do as interior designers. We design, but we don't do technology as a CTO, right?
Danny (25:02.19)
Yeah, and that's so true in so many different business strategy cases. And a lot of times I look at business and I see the second or third or fourth step and I'm like, it'd be really fun to do those steps or those stages. But before you can get to those stages, you have to do stage one. And so often that's all people know what they do. Like I know I need a website.
Katie (25:06.429)
Hmm.
Katie (25:18.877)
Yeah.
Katie (25:22.854)
Ugh, yeah.
Danny (25:28.794)
And then they get the website and they're like, well, how come people aren't coming to my website? Well, search engine optimization comes next or social media engagement or how are you building leads? It's one problem after the next. Once you solve one, it will let you have the opportunity to solve the next. And you know, it just is a rabbit hole where it can distract you from doing those things that you absolutely love. And if somebody can just take care of it for you, then.
Katie (25:37.957)
Yep.
Katie (25:48.093)
Hmm.
Katie (25:59.291)
It's a really good deal. I'm not going to lie. It's right up there with bookkeeping for me.
If accounting and tech can be outsourced, hallelujah and amen, we're going to sign seal and deliver that deal because I have other things I want to do when it comes to my business. Let me ask you this. There's like you mentioned it, technology is so rapidly changing. When it comes to technology in the interior design space, what are the emerging trends? What are you seeing bubble up to the surface that our audience needs to know about and pay attention to?
Danny (26:33.951)
I lost audio.
Katie (26:37.349)
did we lose you?
Danny (26:38.284)
Okay, okay, it's back. Try asking that question a second time.
Katie (26:42.565)
Yeah, and Leah will edit this. no.
Danny (26:45.37)
Let me see, I lost it again.
Thank
Katie (26:52.251)
We got you back now. Hello, hello.
Danny (26:54.552)
Yes, I got it back.
Katie (26:56.005)
Yay, we got you back. OK. I was just going to say, you had mentioned it, but the technology is so rapidly changing. And for those of us who don't live in that world, it can be overwhelming. And sometimes it's just easier to stick our head in the sand, right? But when you're talking to our audience about that topic, what do they need to be aware of as interior designers out there when it comes to emerging tech, trends in tech?
What are the things that you would say, hang on a minute, pull your head out of the sand, you got to listen to this part that is relevant.
Danny (27:26.063)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (27:31.022)
Yeah, great question.
So the hot topic right now is AI.
Katie (27:39.566)
Yes it is.
Danny (27:41.942)
It's changing so many different industries and so many different jobs even, like even in the tech industry.
are we seeing radical changes with? It used to be they said, if you didn't know what you wanted to do, go learn how to code. And well now AI is learning how to code. And so it's not quite to the point where a proficient developer is. And so, you know.
Katie (28:11.889)
Hmm. That's a little intimidating though. mean like that is that's a huge cultural shift.
Danny (28:13.006)
But it just goes... Isn't it?
very big. And this is something that I wanted to kind of echo because we are going to be entering in a new world where creative generative AI is becoming more and commonplace. And
Katie (28:37.373)
Okay, what do you mean by generative AI? Let's have that conversation first.
Danny (28:42.348)
Sure, so what generative AI is, is the ability for, and it can take many different inputs, but one input could be, design me a kitchen that uses the style of colonial architecture and make it white. And then it could generate an image and completely design that in,
Katie (28:54.301)
Mm.
Danny (29:12.698)
taking many images from many different sources and create a very unique design. Now, it's not fantastic yet, but it is radically, radically improving. Now, that can be a very scary thing. It can be a very, very scary thing if you take the mentality of like, technology is going to take my job.
Katie (29:19.057)
Amazing.
Katie (29:30.331)
Yeah, it is, just like all of AI is. Yeah.
Katie (29:41.181)
Mmm.
Danny (29:41.486)
The reality though is, and I've seen this a lot in the medical space and other spaces, that instead of taking away jobs, what it tends to do is lowers the bar for entry into a job. And so in the medical space, what used to be something that doctors would do over time with technology, nurse practitioners started doing, and then give it more time, then the nurse is starting.
Katie (29:58.628)
Interesting.
Katie (30:07.781)
Hmm.
Danny (30:11.32)
started doing and then over time you have your medical assistants start to do. Well, the same thing can be said about interior design. Where the barrier to entry with the tools and technology that come used to take a very gifted, genius interior designer to be able to do. Well, now your senior or junior interior designers are going to start being able to
have similar outputs with these tools. But that doesn't take away the skill set of the interior designer though. Because if you can utilize AI and technology as a tool set for you, then it actually will radically increase the amount of output that you are able to do. And so the trick is not to fear the technology.
Katie (30:46.916)
Mm. Hm.
Katie (31:05.597)
Fair.
Danny (31:11.502)
but to utilize the technology to increase your standard of living, increase your work-life balance, or increase your professional output. And that is where the really exciting opportunity comes, and those that take the opportunity will benefit greatly from it. Those that run from the opportunity can be affected very detrimentally, if in time, depending on.
how the marketplace changes.
Katie (31:42.525)
I love that we were talking about AI on the table and had a great conversation and Lou Anne Nagaro went off on a great soapbox about it. In fact, we'll put the link in the show notes. But the moral of the story is you have to hug the porcupine. It may look like a porcupine to you, but the reality is if you don't hug it, it's going to eat you.
Like you're not gonna have a firm when it's done because now you have clients too that are coming in saying, Hey, I went on AI and created this or gen AI as you call it and created this and this is what I want to do in my house. Can you do it? And that's kind of like a little, well, it's a little bit concerning at first blush. You're like, well, did that take away half my job? The reality is they still can't execute it, which sneak peak we're going to have Renee Beery on.
the show coming up talking about how to make money off your construction projects and how you make that an effective transaction for your company. But how do you encourage designers to not be afraid of technology, but because there's this huge emotional component about it, right? But to go ahead and hug the porcupine because it actually is going to be OK.
Danny (32:50.318)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (32:54.714)
Yeah, there's a few different points that I want to actually call out here. The first one is a general principle that I once discovered in life, realized this is applicable everywhere. And that is, if you can improve just 1 % every single day, that by the end of the year, you are 37 % better. Actually 37 times better. So that's 3700 % better.
Katie (33:19.015)
That's insane.
Danny (33:22.266)
And that's just improving 1 % on a daily basis. And so you don't actually have to go out, take a boot camp and learn everything there is to know about AI in one day. Now that's just maybe read one article here, read one article here, get one new idea every single day. And then over time, it's just gonna be part of you and a part of the skill set and a part of a competitive advantage.
Katie (33:43.805)
Mmm.
Danny (33:48.506)
There's many great stories where I could go down rabbit holes on this one, but we'll leave it at that for a moment. The second thing is, AI does not have to be something that you are an expert at. There is many different parts of it that you can protect yourself.
against just by having somebody that's a technological expert as part of your team or somebody that you can collaborate with. so make sure if that is something that you're concerned about to put part of your business plan, your business strategy, make sure that's something that you don't put off. But if you're learning 1 % a day, you're collaborating with experts, then
Katie (34:25.147)
Yes.
Danny (34:46.38)
you're gonna be just fine. The last point that I have here is that especially when it comes to design, I don't think it's fair to undervalue the skill set of you yourself as a designer. I remember very early on in my career when I was doing product design and we would do product reviews with
senior executives inside the company, a lot of times we'd walk in there, showcase a mock-up, and they'd be ready to pounce on our design saying, why are you using this icon? Or why are we using this color? Or why are we doing all these things? And I think it's part of human nature to think that we know things that we don't know, or think that we can create things because we've seen people do it really well, so we think, well, that's how it should be.
Katie (35:24.837)
Mm. Mm.
Katie (35:41.477)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (35:41.72)
A lot of people don't realize the brilliance that it takes to create a really, really good design. And so somebody that comes in...
Katie (35:50.855)
Yes, well said, well said, well said. AI still isn't there yet. There is an art and a science to design, and that art is that human tangible component. And it is, it's a unique skill. It's a beautiful thing.
Danny (35:56.602)
Mm-mm.
Danny (36:06.636)
Absolutely and you know I Am NOT immune or exempt from that when I am Designing a floor space, you know, the person that I talked to is an interior designer Not because it's it's not my expertise. It's It and when I talk to my interior design friends, I'm like, hey I'm designing a bedroom or I'm designing a kitchen or what color should I use? I learned something new every single time that I talked to
Katie (36:36.733)
Hire the expert, let them do their job. I love that. I 100 % love that. Dani, a great conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and just making technology not only doable, but I would even say inviting, which is a big word in the world of interior design. This has been a fabulous conversation. Thank you.
Danny (36:39.663)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (37:01.22)
Thank you, Katie. It's always a pleasure.
Katie (00:01.422)
Hey everyone, welcome to the coaching corner. Okay, I know you normally hear from me directly, but because the conversation with Danny is so important and we just were talking about AI, I wanted him to be able to coach you through what it is that AI gets right and what it gets wrong and why you still have job security. Because I think that can be an absolutely huge thing. I know it was terrifying to me when AI first came out. I thought the exact same thing you probably did in that, well, we're probably months away from me not having a job. Yeah, entirely not.
the case and here's the reason why. Danny, go ahead and take it away.
Danny (00:35.899)
All right, we're just going to do a quick example here of asking AI a question. if it's all right, I'm going to share my screen. Let's go ahead and do the screen.
Katie (00:43.342)
Go right ahead.
Danny (00:49.213)
All right, so the question we're going to ask is how can AI shape the future of interior design and how can designers prepare for that future? Now keep in mind, AI, when it generates this response, is going through an algorithm, it's going through a bunch of different data, and just because it says this and it just develops a really nice response here doesn't mean it's actually true.
So what's the trick? The trick is to look at the response, get new ideas, and then figure out how to use these ideas in our strategy. So let's see how it did. All right. So AI is poised to significantly influence the future of interior design. It gives us a bunch of different reasons. One is it says it can personalize design. It can use a
virtual reality or augmented reality to kind of help showcase what design layouts might look out. Those are really cool ideas. Automation and design process, very good, especially from a business efficiency standpoint. Intelligence in space optimization. Predicting design trends, sure. If you maybe do that, maybe it's not right, but it can at least give you theoretical design trends.
Katie (01:53.496)
They are.
Katie (02:02.136)
Fair.
Danny (02:14.429)
Enhanced collaboration, sustainability, environmental impact. Okay, all those really great ideas.
Katie (02:22.764)
Yeah, I mean, like you're not telling me on the fact this isn't taking my job yet, right?
Danny (02:27.351)
Right, right. So, so take, take those ideas now and you can actually utilize them inside your own strategy. So it gives us a few other points of maybe things to consider. Adopt AI tools, sure. Stay adaptable. It's always good to be flexible and learn and foster a balance between AI and human initiation. Now, just because this is the answer it gave us does not mean this is the only thing that's out there.
I can easily pinpoint a few different other ways that AI or ways to protect yourself against AI. You know, one is embracing continuous learning. One is collaborating with other experts in the industry. One is really focusing on that human, the human and well, the connection that humanity has. Like a computer can't develop human emotion the way a human can. And so
Katie (03:19.416)
Yeah.
Danny (03:27.013)
really focus on that user-centric design and that user-centric, well, Apple really is good at this, the user experience. If you have a really solid experience, people are going to go back to you again and again, and they're not going to want to talk to a computer.
Katie (03:44.462)
That's a great way to put it because what makes Apple brilliant is all the stuff you don't see. So when you, what you do see feels so seamless and so easy and so like it understands you. If you can give those three things to your clients where it's so easy and it feels like it understands all of that, you have won in spades. So if I'm hearing you right, Danny, in this coaching corner, take AI, use it as a tool, and then do it even better because that's what's gonna set you and your firm apart.
Danny (03:49.447)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (04:14.621)
100%. It's a tool. It is not an enemy.
Katie (04:18.636)
I love that. And if you want to know more about this, reach out to Danny at plum tree.it and he can help get you there. Thanks Danny for joining me on this coaching corner.
Danny (04:29.053)
Thanks, Katie.
Meet Katie, a dynamic PODCAST host and successful entrepreneur.
Former news anchor turned leader of a multimillion-dollar design firm, Katie's passion lies in uncovering brilliance and sharing design and business secrets. Her insatiable curiosity, honed in the media spotlight, fuels enlightening conversations on her podcast, offering a platform for wisdom-seeking design enthusiasts and aspiring entrepreneurs.
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Technology & Automation for Interior Design with Danny Marsh
Technology is really not a favorite part of the job for an interior designer. It’s a part of the job we begrudgingly accept, but not one we flock to. If anything, tech tends to cause frustration in our world. But, as you and I can both see, tech isn’t going anywhere—it’s becoming an even bigger behemoth!
When I have tech questions, my go-to is Danny Marsh! Danny joins me on the podcast today where he’s sharing technology challenges unique to interior designers, emerging tech trends, how certain software actually hinders your business growth, and introduces us to his tech firm that’s just for interior designers! You’re in for a fantastic conversation. Stick around for this week’s Coaching Corner—with a special guest!
In this episode, we cover:
The biggest tech challenges interior designers face
Why Danny created a tech firm for interior designers
Why it’s important for designers to acknowledge they’re entrepreneurs
A golden nugget about tailored-to-you tech solutions
Examples of Danny successfully and radically repositioning designers
How certain software hinders your ability to grow your firm
How Danny balances the creative needs of designers with tech solutions
What technology trends are emerging in the interior design space
So many thanks to Danny for joining us today to share his insights and not just make technology doable, but inviting. (Which is a big thing in the interior design world!) As you heard today, hire the expert and let them do their job.
Be sure to say hello on LinkedIn so we can continue the conversation!
More about Danny Marsh
Danny Marsh is a seasoned technology consultant with a unique passion for helping others create and achieve their vision through entrepreneurship, technology, and design. With over 15 years of experience in product development and company operations, Daniel specializes in crafting innovative, user-centric solutions that streamline workflows, enhance client experiences, and support design businesses in thriving within a competitive market. When Daniel isn’t empowering design professionals with technology, he’s likely exploring Utah’s rugged landscapes, rock climbing, skiing, or spending quality time with his family.
Links and Mentioned Resources
Connect with Danny Marsh
This episode is brought to you by Plumtree.it
Plumtree is a fractional technology service provider. This means you will have access to top dedicated talent for a fraction of the price. Together we can craft the perfect technology infrastructure for you and your company, and give you the support you need to stay calm,
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Book Your Coaching Strategy Session with Katie!
Business Coaching for Interior Designers
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More about Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design
As an interior designer, do you struggle with balancing your passion for creativity with the practical demands and hopes of running a successful business? Whether starting a new venture or scaling an existing firm, the complexities can be overwhelming. Welcome to “Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design,” a podcast designed to bridge the gap between creativity and entrepreneurship.
This masterclass is hosted by the dynamic Katie Decker-Erickson, a seasoned expert with nearly 20 years of experience in interior design, a Master's degree in Business Administration, and creator and owner of a multimillion-dollar interior design firm.
Each episode offers innovative and actionable business strategies, engaging conversations, and practical guidance to help you build and grow a successful design business. Tune in every other Friday on YouTube or any of your favorite podcast platforms to ignite your creative spark and sharpen your entrepreneurial skills. (Topics and language are kid/family friendly.)
This post may contain affiliate links, so I may earn a small commission when you make a purchase through links on my site at no additional cost to you.
This episode of Success by Design: Mastering the Business of Interior Design is brought to you in partnership with Leah Bryant Co.
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of the Success by Design: Mastering the business of interior design follows
Katie (00:01.873)
Hey, Danny, welcome to the show.
Danny (00:04.356)
Well, thank you. glad to be on.
Katie (00:06.301)
we are thrilled to have you because there is nothing I think that most of us in the world of design, unless you're a drafter can say unequivocally and that we hate technology because it usually doesn't work the way we want it to. And the best tech is the tech we don't think about, which is why I love my iPhone, right? Because I don't think about it. So.
Danny (00:25.102)
You know, that is so true.
Katie (00:26.301)
It's so true. And like, I wish it was different, but we just want to get back to creating. We don't want to hang out in this technological universe. Admittedly, now that's your happy space, which we absolutely love. But I want to start with like, what do you see as the biggest challenges for interior designers today? And how are you addressing them as the CEO of PlumTree? Love your firm. In full disclosure, we work with them.
Really, it's a tech firm designed just for interior designers, which is kind of cool. But what are you seeing? What are all the problems we're all facing? I mean, I know my problems, but you tell me what you're seeing.
Danny (01:07.054)
Yeah, you know, that's a, an interesting question because everybody's going to have their unique challenges. And depending on if you're a brand new interior design company or a seasoned interior design company, kind of looking to address the changing marketplaces, you're all going to have different challenges, different objectives and different needs in the exact moment.
Katie (01:15.549)
Hmm.
Danny (01:34.362)
Some people are just starting out. trying to find their niche. Other people are looking to scale and trying to understand how technology can be used to help make their workflows more efficient. And then you have all the challenges of changing political landscapes or economical landscapes or even generational landscapes. But one thing that seems to affect
Katie (01:55.133)
Hmm.
Danny (01:59.966)
every interior design company, whether you're new or you are old, is the changing technology landscape. honestly, technology as a whole, it could be your Achilles' or it could be your secret sauce. depending on how well you are, I appreciate that, depending on how well you are at using it can really give you that competitive advantage in your own given market space.
Katie (02:17.618)
Well said.
Danny (02:29.262)
But I don't know, let's, you know, design something that's really special in my heart. It's where I got my career. I started off in product design and design software. And so really understanding how the design process works, that how to integrate that in your operations and utilize technology to make it more efficient. All of those things kind of work together. And if you can do it well.
Katie (02:54.173)
Hmm.
Danny (02:59.194)
then you're very happy, designer.
Katie (03:03.727)
It's so true. And I will say, as designers, there's two things that get us to switch technology. If we get the feeling we're going to be left behind and we absolutely have to do it, or if the technology we're using is
Danny (03:09.38)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (03:17.053)
going away fundamentally and then we get real inspired to find a solution. But I would say overall and Gale Dobie has done a fabulous job of researching so much of this. Designers don't, we're not early adopters, let's just put it that way. We usually get brought to the party with a freight train pulling us along for the ride. And so when clients come to you, where do you feel like you have an upper hand as compared to
Danny (03:21.924)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (03:37.166)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Katie (03:46.467)
well there's this design firm down the street and they're really great and someone referred me but what do you feel like is missing in that that is the piece that you provide?
Danny (03:58.554)
Yeah, so that goes actually to a little bit to my background. So when I went to college, I fell in love with entrepreneurship and actually had the goal to one day be an angel investor because I really liked the idea of jumping in with these brand new visionaries that wanted to go change the world. And I thought the way to do that was going to be make a lot of money.
Katie (04:04.029)
Hmm.
Katie (04:19.303)
Yeah.
Danny (04:26.658)
start investing into these young guys and help them build their vision and create their empire. Somewhere down the line...
Katie (04:33.127)
That's a pretty cool plan, I'm not going to lie. I mean, I'm like, yeah, I kind of am tracking with you, and that sounds fabulous. So what happened?
Danny (04:41.102)
You know, somewhere down the line, I learned that there's so many different ways to create a vision and so many different ways to help people. And I got involved with business consulting and fell in love with that same passion of being able to help others create their visions. And so when it comes to interior design, a lot of people don't necessarily instantly identify themselves when they say I'm an interior designer as...
Well, I'm an entrepreneur. But the reality is interior designers are 100 % entrepreneurs. And so you could still go down all those roads of creating your business, creating a vision, creating a marketplace, creating your brand identity. And then in addition to that, I also bring the technology side of that. So how are we going to use technology to create our vision?
Katie (05:25.341)
Mm.
Danny (05:40.506)
How are we going to use technology to attack the marketplace? How are we going to use technology to be better designers? Or how are we going to use technology to do better operations? All of those things combined, depending on what your objective is, whether it's scaling, whether it's just keeping our team small and efficient and getting a few hours back in your day so you can go enjoy time with your family. Depending on what your objective is, my goal is to figure out how to...
to create, well, not necessarily create that vision, it's your vision, but how to take that vision that you have and make it just a little bit closer to reality.
Katie (06:20.241)
Which is such a beautiful thing, because there's so many times where at least the designers that I coach, I'll say, who's your target market and how is your brand identity aligned with them? I don't know. I haven't thought about my target market. OK, but then how do we build the brand? And the brand informs the website, which informs the social media content, which informs. And walking them through that process is such a.
Danny (06:28.92)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Danny (06:38.479)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (06:44.815)
an evolutionary journey and that they start to understand who they kind of want to be when they grow up. And these can be firms that have been in existence for a significant amount of time, but they don't understand the power of what knowing who they are can do for them when it comes even to knowing what their technological needs are. Because when you know what your target market's looking for, you can find the right tech on the back end.
to even help facilitate that back to like it's operating in the background and it's working when I'm not thinking about it's working, right?
Danny (07:19.098)
Mm-hmm. You know, here's a question for you. You're obviously a seasoned interior designer, a pot...
Katie (07:26.833)
That's code for old Danny. And I really appreciate that you chose the word seasoned. I'm going to go with that today. I needed that. Thank you. It's like wine in a good cast iron pan. You're seasoned. Yeah, go ahead.
Danny (07:39.61)
Absolutely. When did you, I mean, when you first started, did you think, I want to go and start a business or I want to go be an interior designer or when did you start realizing that I'm not just doing interior design, but I'm actually building an organization. I'm actually building a company. I'm building a brand. Did that cross your mind in the beginning or is that something that you learned later on?
Katie (07:45.437)
Hmm.
Katie (07:51.421)
Mm.
Katie (08:09.873)
You know, that's a really interesting question because for me it did, but I don't think that's normal based on the clients I coach. I wanted to start a business that allowed me to use my creative juices, but I had just finished my MBA and so I was heavy on the business, right? But I knew I had this passion to create. So like even starting Colorworks when I started it, I started it not using my name with the intent of either
having my daughters take it over someday if they wanted to, or selling it. And I don't, that's retirement. I'm not that seasoned yet. We still got a few more, hopefully, decades in us. But yeah, that was the intent behind it. I think what happens to a lot of creatives though, a lot of interior designers, at least the ones I coach, it's I wanted to start out doing my own thing. So I started designing and.
Danny (08:44.462)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (09:05.253)
started with family and then that became a word of mouth thing. And then I started working with, you know, Joe and John down the street. And then that became a thing. And then it just progressed from there. Is that where you're kind of going with that question, though? Because I don't think I had a normal journey. I'll be real. In fact, I know I didn't have a normal journey to interior design. And I don't even know kind of your point about like, what is the greatest need when I asked you that question that you see in the interior design space when it comes to technology?
every firm and every person I feel like is so different, which is why because their journeys are all unique, they all need tailored solutions. Is that a fair way to put it?
Danny (09:41.934)
I think that's a very smart way to put it. And even in any sort of marketplace, whether you're looking into your design or looking into other startups, depending on when you start, doesn't even mean you can do the same thing that those before you that did, because the marketplace is now different. And so you really do need a tailored solution when it comes to
Katie (10:03.101)
Now that's an interesting thought.
Danny (10:11.04)
every single company because every company is in a different marketplace. Every single company has different technologies and different opportunities that are at their disposal when they start and when they grow. And I guess the general rule is if you're not flexible then you open yourself up for risk.
Katie (10:33.799)
totally. mean, that's just like a classic Baldrige business principle, right? Agility. You have to be agile. And when you lose your agility, mean, think about some of these great big behemoth organizations, you know, i.e. the big box retailer that has a dominant color blue. So we don't get in trouble. But like their ability to be agile when it came to their perception in the marketplace was so hard. Look at how many years they've spent trying to turn around the perception of who they are in the marketplace and that they're not just the low cost provider balanced on the backs of their employees.
Danny (10:38.436)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (10:48.13)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (11:03.919)
That's a huge, huge thing. I mean, that's hard to do. Let me ask you, what is the greatest change or example you have seen where you've picked up a firm or picked up a client where you're like, well, this is interesting, and been able to radically reposition them to better be able to do what they love as opposed to feeling like they were tripping over tech all day long?
Danny (11:04.015)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (11:28.922)
Yeah, it's a good question and I'm going to answer it with two different companies. One that's not an interior design company and then I'm going to use an interior design company. So one company earlier on in my career that we worked with was a doctor's office and something that's interesting in a lot of family practices that people
Katie (11:34.823)
Perfect.
Katie (11:41.149)
Mmm.
Danny (11:57.518)
may not actually realize is the medical assistant inside the doctor's office is probably one of the most vital pieces of that whole entire office. And for a given office that has a couple doctors, you could have about 10 or 20 medical assistants for a practice that has two to three doctors.
Katie (12:18.055)
These are like the people taking your blood pressure and making sure you've got the right name, of birth, like those folks, right? OK.
Danny (12:24.45)
Yes, these are generally young women about ages 18 to 24 or 25. They are generally inside the office for about 18 months to 24 months before they move on, either because they graduate, they're going to med school, or they get married, or there's so many different...
Katie (12:33.51)
Okay.
Katie (12:48.046)
Mm. Sure.
Danny (12:54.146)
life-changing moments they can have. But what ends up happening inside these doctors' clinics and offices is there's a very high turnover of talent that is also very skilled talent. And so it takes about six months to ramp up a new medical assistant. And when you're only there for about 18 months, that means a third of the time these new employees aren't even very...
Katie (13:05.245)
Mm.
Katie (13:23.517)
So not operating at maximum potential, basically. Yeah.
Danny (13:23.673)
valuable.
Exactly. And so we ended up creating a system that allowed for the onboarding of new employees to be very, very quick to not only empower the medical assistants to be able to get their questions answered without having to talk to anyone. They can just go to the tablet. They're like, how do I set up this procedure? Here's the instructions. Bam, I know how to do all this procedure set up. And what ended up happening is
All these mistakes that were happening by new medical assistants in these offices, well, they started to go away. And you started to say 15 minutes there, 15 minutes there. And then all of a sudden, after saving about 30, 45 minutes a day, well, that means those are two or three more patients a doctor can now see. And so over the course of a year, we're talking at over...
Katie (14:03.761)
That's fascinating.
Katie (14:17.181)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (14:23.352)
hundred thousand dollars in additional revenue these doctors are now able to generate. And that's pure profit. Pure profit. And so...
Katie (14:26.737)
That's insane.
Katie (14:31.973)
Right, because the CMA is already there. It's just getting them more efficient at their job because they have the technological backbone to allow them to get up to speed faster and be more productive.
Danny (14:34.913)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Danny (14:42.394)
Absolutely. Now, I told you I'd also talk about an interior design company. so operations are very core to every single company. And utilizing the right tools to be able to do the right things and to have your data in the right place is very, very critical. So without disclosing any sensitive information, this one client that inside the interior design space, I, when, yeah.
Katie (14:44.216)
Interesting.
Katie (15:08.433)
Yeah.
Danny (15:10.862)
When we went in to go look at, what are you doing? How are you operating as a company? We realized that the way they were setting up their data and the way that they were operating, there's a complete mismatch as far as the software they're using and the goals they were trying to do with the software. In fact, they were just using task management to completely run their whole entire
Katie (15:15.997)
Hmm.
Danny (15:38.778)
their company instead of using operations and proper data structures. And just for a clear example, if you're using a software like Asana to manage a client tell list or to manage your workflows, it can get you 50 % of the way there. But when you start wanting to drill down and reporting to know where are my clients located or where are the...
Katie (16:05.372)
Yes.
Danny (16:07.706)
of my workflow that are taking the longest, well then all your data now is trapped in ways that is not reportable. And so you can't actually identify the issues that your company is having in its operations. And so being able to extract that data, put it into a system that actually does operations appropriately, and there's many out there. So I want to give you all the answers right now because it really depends.
Katie (16:16.477)
Yeah.
Katie (16:33.565)
Back to tailored solutions again, right? Like what works for one firm doesn't work for another.
Danny (16:38.518)
Absolutely. And so, but being able to get the data into the right places, now you can identify the actual areas inside your company that require your attention, that require problem solving. And then you can start making your procurement faster. You can start making your turnover of project completion faster. And you can take
Katie (16:46.845)
Hmm.
Danny (17:07.83)
any sort of KPI that you're trying to measure now and see if the strategies that you're using are actually improving those KPIs.
Katie (17:16.315)
And I can't tell you how many clients I coach to that are still operating off a task list. And there's so many problems with that. If you're doing that, this is the time to tune into this part, because it's affecting your profitability. If you're operating off a task list, to Danny's point, you cannot get more efficient about the areas that you're spending an inordinate amount of time on when you don't even know what those areas are.
Danny (17:30.266)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (17:40.772)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (17:41.029)
And you also can't get through all the subtasks, all the delegation. You can't create all the automation. So when one person does something, it triggers someone else to do something. It's still on you to reassign that task, right? Task lists are great if it's you doing you. But if you want to scale, and I would say even if you are one other person in your office, you should not be operating on a task list because it is going to cripple you long term.
Danny (18:05.786)
Well, it comes down to...
Danny (18:10.808)
Yeah, and it really comes down to your objective. Scaling is one thing, right? But I don't know anybody who doesn't want 30 minutes back in their day. And so if you could spend, you know, a little bit of money to start getting 30 minutes back in your day every single day, who doesn't want that?
Katie (18:14.385)
That's fair.
Katie (18:22.216)
my gosh, if you do, please let us know. We would love to hear it.
Katie (18:31.633)
Yeah, no, that's everybody. I know I'd kill for 30 minutes. 30 minutes would feel amazing. So let me ask you, how are you balancing in your firm the creative needs of interior designers also with those tech solutions and the requirements that they have when you're building?
Danny (18:50.606)
Yeah, that's a good question.
You know, I think about...
So there is a book that I remember back in my college days called the E-Myth Revisited. And the whole and I love it too. There's one story in that book in particular that really resonated strong with me. And so in that book, you have this baker, her name is Sarah and she really liked to make pies.
Katie (19:02.525)
I love a good book.
Katie (19:07.037)
great buck.
Katie (19:16.413)
Mm.
Danny (19:26.222)
But as you quickly learn when starting a business, just because you like to make pies does not mean you like to run a business.
Katie (19:33.925)
Yeah, it's the darndest thing, right? Yes. I think there's so many people that can relate to this story. Yes.
Danny (19:36.601)
Yeah.
Danny (19:41.124)
So in this story, she realized bookkeeping was the bane of her existence. She didn't like it. She wasn't good at it. just if she could get rid of that one thing, it'd make her life amazing. Well, a lot of people don't realize you don't have to go hire a full-time bookkeeper to do your books. And so what Sarah
quickly learned is she hired this part-time bookkeeper, spent pretty much hourly. They did the books when she needed to, took that task off her plate and allowed her to focus on the areas of her business that she truly loved. so, bacon pies. And so, when I think about the clients that I've consulted in the past, there are definitely clients where we've had, they've
Katie (20:14.141)
Hmm.
Katie (20:27.495)
get back to bacon pies.
Danny (20:39.972)
had this specific problem or project that they said, hey, could you just do this for us real quick? And we spent a few hours, delivered it, and we're like, thank you, we're done, and we part ways. And those can be fun projects, but the clients that I think I have the most fun working with are the clients where they're like, well, what we're really looking for is somebody to be a part of our team.
And the needs of the interior designers, like, when it comes to technology, it's going to be ever changing. Yes, there are things that we can do. We can 100 % build a website for you. We could 100 % create a plan for branding or marketing. And we can do these things and get you on the right track and...
Katie (21:22.588)
Yep.
Danny (21:38.766)
let you go on your merry way. But there's just something a little bit more fun when you get to build that relationship and it's an ongoing relationship. And instead of training somebody to do technology, you get to do technology for them and to build their solutions and to continue to enhance their solutions and to help them.
reach those goals and objectives and scale if that's what they were looking to do or help them to make their teams more efficient if that's what they're looking to do and to really approach these problems more as partners or as coworkers or team members. And that's how I like to balance that kind of workload where it's like interior designers.
Katie (22:27.357)
Hmm.
Danny (22:33.838)
especially the ones that are very passionate about interior design or building vision or creating teams.
That, in my mind, is where your focus should be, on the areas that you absolutely love. And you could go generate a ton of different skills and technology, and I always encourage people to do that because technology is rapidly changing, and the more you can use it, the better you're gonna be. But if that's just not who you want to be, or if you don't really want to spend that time becoming
Katie (23:00.295)
Yeah.
Danny (23:12.152)
the chief technology officer at your company. Well, come partner with us. We can do that. We can help you on the technology side and help either create that vision on the technology side that you need, or if you already have that vision, help you execute it in a way where we bring years of experience doing just that.
Katie (23:37.245)
I love that. And I love your story about Sarah. And I'm sitting here smiling because in all of the coaching clients I have helped over the years, I think about it and I don't know one of them that said, I love technology. And I do design on the side, right? Like technology is usually the afterthought. But one thing I thought that was interesting as you were talking, I was thinking about in our firm, how we use tech.
and then it makes us better at something. And when we get better at something, then we need more tech to keep pace with us. And so it becomes this like, kind of like climbing up a mountain, but it's a stair step, right? Like.
Danny (24:08.42)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (24:13.831)
We get better at something. We need the tech to come back up and do something differently, or we need more data, or we want an easy lead conversion, or we want whatever it is. And it's great, like you said, to have somebody on your team who can be that person, because that is the game changer when it comes to, I think, continuing down. If you are wanting to scale, it's a lot easier when you can do rapid implementation as opposed to going out finding someone who can do this specific thing and then letting them do it and then finding someone else
Danny (24:26.618)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (24:42.394)
Mm-hmm.
Katie (24:43.795)
who can do that specific thing. It's so important to have someone, I guess, on your team who has that hierarchical vision of where are we going with tech. It can even perceive your needs before you know you need them because this isn't what we do as interior designers. We design, but we don't do technology as a CTO, right?
Danny (25:02.19)
Yeah, and that's so true in so many different business strategy cases. And a lot of times I look at business and I see the second or third or fourth step and I'm like, it'd be really fun to do those steps or those stages. But before you can get to those stages, you have to do stage one. And so often that's all people know what they do. Like I know I need a website.
Katie (25:06.429)
Hmm.
Katie (25:18.877)
Yeah.
Katie (25:22.854)
Ugh, yeah.
Danny (25:28.794)
And then they get the website and they're like, well, how come people aren't coming to my website? Well, search engine optimization comes next or social media engagement or how are you building leads? It's one problem after the next. Once you solve one, it will let you have the opportunity to solve the next. And you know, it just is a rabbit hole where it can distract you from doing those things that you absolutely love. And if somebody can just take care of it for you, then.
Katie (25:37.957)
Yep.
Katie (25:48.093)
Hmm.
Katie (25:59.291)
It's a really good deal. I'm not going to lie. It's right up there with bookkeeping for me.
If accounting and tech can be outsourced, hallelujah and amen, we're going to sign seal and deliver that deal because I have other things I want to do when it comes to my business. Let me ask you this. There's like you mentioned it, technology is so rapidly changing. When it comes to technology in the interior design space, what are the emerging trends? What are you seeing bubble up to the surface that our audience needs to know about and pay attention to?
Danny (26:33.951)
I lost audio.
Katie (26:37.349)
did we lose you?
Danny (26:38.284)
Okay, okay, it's back. Try asking that question a second time.
Katie (26:42.565)
Yeah, and Leah will edit this. no.
Danny (26:45.37)
Let me see, I lost it again.
Thank
Katie (26:52.251)
We got you back now. Hello, hello.
Danny (26:54.552)
Yes, I got it back.
Katie (26:56.005)
Yay, we got you back. OK. I was just going to say, you had mentioned it, but the technology is so rapidly changing. And for those of us who don't live in that world, it can be overwhelming. And sometimes it's just easier to stick our head in the sand, right? But when you're talking to our audience about that topic, what do they need to be aware of as interior designers out there when it comes to emerging tech, trends in tech?
What are the things that you would say, hang on a minute, pull your head out of the sand, you got to listen to this part that is relevant.
Danny (27:26.063)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (27:31.022)
Yeah, great question.
So the hot topic right now is AI.
Katie (27:39.566)
Yes it is.
Danny (27:41.942)
It's changing so many different industries and so many different jobs even, like even in the tech industry.
are we seeing radical changes with? It used to be they said, if you didn't know what you wanted to do, go learn how to code. And well now AI is learning how to code. And so it's not quite to the point where a proficient developer is. And so, you know.
Katie (28:11.889)
Hmm. That's a little intimidating though. mean like that is that's a huge cultural shift.
Danny (28:13.006)
But it just goes... Isn't it?
very big. And this is something that I wanted to kind of echo because we are going to be entering in a new world where creative generative AI is becoming more and commonplace. And
Katie (28:37.373)
Okay, what do you mean by generative AI? Let's have that conversation first.
Danny (28:42.348)
Sure, so what generative AI is, is the ability for, and it can take many different inputs, but one input could be, design me a kitchen that uses the style of colonial architecture and make it white. And then it could generate an image and completely design that in,
Katie (28:54.301)
Mm.
Danny (29:12.698)
taking many images from many different sources and create a very unique design. Now, it's not fantastic yet, but it is radically, radically improving. Now, that can be a very scary thing. It can be a very, very scary thing if you take the mentality of like, technology is going to take my job.
Katie (29:19.057)
Amazing.
Katie (29:30.331)
Yeah, it is, just like all of AI is. Yeah.
Katie (29:41.181)
Mmm.
Danny (29:41.486)
The reality though is, and I've seen this a lot in the medical space and other spaces, that instead of taking away jobs, what it tends to do is lowers the bar for entry into a job. And so in the medical space, what used to be something that doctors would do over time with technology, nurse practitioners started doing, and then give it more time, then the nurse is starting.
Katie (29:58.628)
Interesting.
Katie (30:07.781)
Hmm.
Danny (30:11.32)
started doing and then over time you have your medical assistants start to do. Well, the same thing can be said about interior design. Where the barrier to entry with the tools and technology that come used to take a very gifted, genius interior designer to be able to do. Well, now your senior or junior interior designers are going to start being able to
have similar outputs with these tools. But that doesn't take away the skill set of the interior designer though. Because if you can utilize AI and technology as a tool set for you, then it actually will radically increase the amount of output that you are able to do. And so the trick is not to fear the technology.
Katie (30:46.916)
Mm. Hm.
Katie (31:05.597)
Fair.
Danny (31:11.502)
but to utilize the technology to increase your standard of living, increase your work-life balance, or increase your professional output. And that is where the really exciting opportunity comes, and those that take the opportunity will benefit greatly from it. Those that run from the opportunity can be affected very detrimentally, if in time, depending on.
how the marketplace changes.
Katie (31:42.525)
I love that we were talking about AI on the table and had a great conversation and Lou Anne Nagaro went off on a great soapbox about it. In fact, we'll put the link in the show notes. But the moral of the story is you have to hug the porcupine. It may look like a porcupine to you, but the reality is if you don't hug it, it's going to eat you.
Like you're not gonna have a firm when it's done because now you have clients too that are coming in saying, Hey, I went on AI and created this or gen AI as you call it and created this and this is what I want to do in my house. Can you do it? And that's kind of like a little, well, it's a little bit concerning at first blush. You're like, well, did that take away half my job? The reality is they still can't execute it, which sneak peak we're going to have Renee Beery on.
the show coming up talking about how to make money off your construction projects and how you make that an effective transaction for your company. But how do you encourage designers to not be afraid of technology, but because there's this huge emotional component about it, right? But to go ahead and hug the porcupine because it actually is going to be OK.
Danny (32:50.318)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (32:54.714)
Yeah, there's a few different points that I want to actually call out here. The first one is a general principle that I once discovered in life, realized this is applicable everywhere. And that is, if you can improve just 1 % every single day, that by the end of the year, you are 37 % better. Actually 37 times better. So that's 3700 % better.
Katie (33:19.015)
That's insane.
Danny (33:22.266)
And that's just improving 1 % on a daily basis. And so you don't actually have to go out, take a boot camp and learn everything there is to know about AI in one day. Now that's just maybe read one article here, read one article here, get one new idea every single day. And then over time, it's just gonna be part of you and a part of the skill set and a part of a competitive advantage.
Katie (33:43.805)
Mmm.
Danny (33:48.506)
There's many great stories where I could go down rabbit holes on this one, but we'll leave it at that for a moment. The second thing is, AI does not have to be something that you are an expert at. There is many different parts of it that you can protect yourself.
against just by having somebody that's a technological expert as part of your team or somebody that you can collaborate with. so make sure if that is something that you're concerned about to put part of your business plan, your business strategy, make sure that's something that you don't put off. But if you're learning 1 % a day, you're collaborating with experts, then
Katie (34:25.147)
Yes.
Danny (34:46.38)
you're gonna be just fine. The last point that I have here is that especially when it comes to design, I don't think it's fair to undervalue the skill set of you yourself as a designer. I remember very early on in my career when I was doing product design and we would do product reviews with
senior executives inside the company, a lot of times we'd walk in there, showcase a mock-up, and they'd be ready to pounce on our design saying, why are you using this icon? Or why are we using this color? Or why are we doing all these things? And I think it's part of human nature to think that we know things that we don't know, or think that we can create things because we've seen people do it really well, so we think, well, that's how it should be.
Katie (35:24.837)
Mm. Mm.
Katie (35:41.477)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (35:41.72)
A lot of people don't realize the brilliance that it takes to create a really, really good design. And so somebody that comes in...
Katie (35:50.855)
Yes, well said, well said, well said. AI still isn't there yet. There is an art and a science to design, and that art is that human tangible component. And it is, it's a unique skill. It's a beautiful thing.
Danny (35:56.602)
Mm-mm.
Danny (36:06.636)
Absolutely and you know I Am NOT immune or exempt from that when I am Designing a floor space, you know, the person that I talked to is an interior designer Not because it's it's not my expertise. It's It and when I talk to my interior design friends, I'm like, hey I'm designing a bedroom or I'm designing a kitchen or what color should I use? I learned something new every single time that I talked to
Katie (36:36.733)
Hire the expert, let them do their job. I love that. I 100 % love that. Dani, a great conversation. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and just making technology not only doable, but I would even say inviting, which is a big word in the world of interior design. This has been a fabulous conversation. Thank you.
Danny (36:39.663)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (37:01.22)
Thank you, Katie. It's always a pleasure.
Katie (00:01.422)
Hey everyone, welcome to the coaching corner. Okay, I know you normally hear from me directly, but because the conversation with Danny is so important and we just were talking about AI, I wanted him to be able to coach you through what it is that AI gets right and what it gets wrong and why you still have job security. Because I think that can be an absolutely huge thing. I know it was terrifying to me when AI first came out. I thought the exact same thing you probably did in that, well, we're probably months away from me not having a job. Yeah, entirely not.
the case and here's the reason why. Danny, go ahead and take it away.
Danny (00:35.899)
All right, we're just going to do a quick example here of asking AI a question. if it's all right, I'm going to share my screen. Let's go ahead and do the screen.
Katie (00:43.342)
Go right ahead.
Danny (00:49.213)
All right, so the question we're going to ask is how can AI shape the future of interior design and how can designers prepare for that future? Now keep in mind, AI, when it generates this response, is going through an algorithm, it's going through a bunch of different data, and just because it says this and it just develops a really nice response here doesn't mean it's actually true.
So what's the trick? The trick is to look at the response, get new ideas, and then figure out how to use these ideas in our strategy. So let's see how it did. All right. So AI is poised to significantly influence the future of interior design. It gives us a bunch of different reasons. One is it says it can personalize design. It can use a
virtual reality or augmented reality to kind of help showcase what design layouts might look out. Those are really cool ideas. Automation and design process, very good, especially from a business efficiency standpoint. Intelligence in space optimization. Predicting design trends, sure. If you maybe do that, maybe it's not right, but it can at least give you theoretical design trends.
Katie (01:53.496)
They are.
Katie (02:02.136)
Fair.
Danny (02:14.429)
Enhanced collaboration, sustainability, environmental impact. Okay, all those really great ideas.
Katie (02:22.764)
Yeah, I mean, like you're not telling me on the fact this isn't taking my job yet, right?
Danny (02:27.351)
Right, right. So, so take, take those ideas now and you can actually utilize them inside your own strategy. So it gives us a few other points of maybe things to consider. Adopt AI tools, sure. Stay adaptable. It's always good to be flexible and learn and foster a balance between AI and human initiation. Now, just because this is the answer it gave us does not mean this is the only thing that's out there.
I can easily pinpoint a few different other ways that AI or ways to protect yourself against AI. You know, one is embracing continuous learning. One is collaborating with other experts in the industry. One is really focusing on that human, the human and well, the connection that humanity has. Like a computer can't develop human emotion the way a human can. And so
Katie (03:19.416)
Yeah.
Danny (03:27.013)
really focus on that user-centric design and that user-centric, well, Apple really is good at this, the user experience. If you have a really solid experience, people are going to go back to you again and again, and they're not going to want to talk to a computer.
Katie (03:44.462)
That's a great way to put it because what makes Apple brilliant is all the stuff you don't see. So when you, what you do see feels so seamless and so easy and so like it understands you. If you can give those three things to your clients where it's so easy and it feels like it understands all of that, you have won in spades. So if I'm hearing you right, Danny, in this coaching corner, take AI, use it as a tool, and then do it even better because that's what's gonna set you and your firm apart.
Danny (03:49.447)
Mm-hmm.
Danny (04:14.621)
100%. It's a tool. It is not an enemy.
Katie (04:18.636)
I love that. And if you want to know more about this, reach out to Danny at plum tree.it and he can help get you there. Thanks Danny for joining me on this coaching corner.
Danny (04:29.053)
Thanks, Katie.
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